I read BlackJetta's entry on "AU$50 lab made diamond and a brainless P.H.D student".
Here's an excerpt.
Coincidently, when I was over at Twit's place last night, his housemate showed me a 1 carat lab made diamond he bought from Ebay for AU$50. He told me he is going to get the diamond set, and use it to propose to his gf. So I asked him,
"Are you fucking serious? You're fucking with me right?!"
"No. I'm serious."
".........urgh?" *Showed him my infamous bitchy wtf face*
"You are so materialistic. It's just a ring. She wouldn't know. It's no diff."
"That's not the point."
"Well, I'm not like you. I have no money. $50 for a P.H.D student with no income, IS a lot."
"Well, If you have no money, for fucks you're proposing?!"
"Because I feel that it's time to."
"WADDYA MEAN IT'S TIME TO?! Just b'cus she spent yonks with you, so you have to marry her when you can't even afford to? What you gonna do after you guys get married? Eat what? Eat shit ar?"
"You girls are so materialistic, it's JUST a ring."
"It is not JUST a ring. It is about the meaning behind the ring. It is about whether are you financially ready for it. If you can't even afford a ring, what makes you think you can afford a married life?"
"H**y is not like you. She's not as high maintainance. We can strive together."
"Just because you've been with Boo forever, and he has NEVER shown you any kind of security, you don't have to vent your anger onto someone else."
Way to go, man!!
Start your marriage with a lie!!
This is the 3rd PhD student who's so indignant about his financial status.
Indignant to a point where one can lie to and/or scold others just get his way and make his point.
[You may also wish to check out HaHa's comments on my entries under Misery on the right sidebar. He claims he has a wife who married him while he a poor PhD student and stuck with him.]
Yes Yes Yes...
Because you are doing your PhD, you must think you are very smart and so, your ego must be very inflated and raw to touch.
But fuck la...
PhD or not...
For once... can spare a thought for other people or not?
She's somebody you supposedly love leh!!
You already know you are financially-lacking, why use L.O.V.E. as an excuse/reason/premise to put her in a position where she has to struggle with her affections for you and the potentially difficult few years to come?
Don't lah!! Fuck!!
If you are afraid because she may leave if you do not bind her with marriage, then it's part of the price of your PhD lor!
Make your own decisions and suffer the consequences youself!
Don't say things like "I will make it up to her later".
Why does she even have to go through it in the first place?
Because she L.O.V.E.s you?
Or because she's privileged to be your chosen one?
Wednesday, October 26, 2005
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
40 comments:
Please loh.. PhD any tom dick harry can do one loh... see whether you got so much time and so bo liao and PATIENCE to study only....... DIO BO BM????
Totally agree la.. eGo's the big thing.whaa..PhD student : "nxt time sit high high(position) pay many many..Scare what" the ironic thing is..the char bo maybe dun mind 1 ley..thats our weakness.. kanna BLINDed by love.
It takes two hands to clap, if both are willing and happy nobody can stop them, as much as you think it is wrong. Anyway using a ring to bind your gf to you for another x more years is pure selfishness, sounds more like buying an insurance for your love to her. However, sometimes don't just look at one side of the story, perhaps he felt that by proposing to her he can bring some stability/security to her. Sorta like saying that your investment of uprooting yourself from your family etc was worth it. Just another perspective of looking at the same thing, which i'm sure there's still lots more.
I agree with Blindcat and BM. Maybe there is another side to the matter. Maybe the gf dun mind it. Maybe Phd is being selfish. Whatever the case maybe, it's his choice and we have to respect it. Doesn't mean we have to like it, but as a true friend, I'd talk to him bot it as BlackJetta was trying to do.
You're right, L.O.V.E shouldn't be the only reason to marry. Hell, it should be the catalyst to drive both parties to work hard ("strive" as Phd puts it) to be financial sound in order to have a stable future. Only then, should you marry. It's really not fair for either party in a marriage to suffer due to lack (ok, there can be exceptions to the case such as married already, kenna retrenched, etc).
Personally, the last couple of days, various conversations, and couple of blogs have shown me the light. L.O.V.E shouldn't allow suffering; L.O.V.E should make you:
- wanna improve your lot
- provide for your partner
- be responsible
- be dependable
- be realistic
- be mature
- be real
New and improved Jeremy Version 2.5
ok. what if now it's a blue collar poor fuck who buys the 50 dollar ring and propose to his girlfriend? then is that acceptable? or do you think that poor fucks should just stay unmarried?
and let's say on the other hand, this rich fuck CHOOSES to buy the 50 dollar man made diamond ring because he thinks the money is better spent elsewhere. is he being insincere?
is it only all about money? if it's really only all about money then why would men even want to get married at all? they might as well just pay for companionship (and sex).
Money Isnt everything..
Money is SOMETHING.
is stablity
is future
is life
of coz is evil..
no money no love??
hahaa..
tsk.
wah bm...u quite zzzz... its really just a ring wad. propose can just mean go sign at the r.o.m ma. and wads wrong with a guy with a low income. thats why singaporean man when proposing is use "wanna apply for hdb flat?"...rite not. hdb is for no money ppl cannot ar...zzz...marriage dun nid loads of money lah...BM...zzzz
BM
It's really chicken and egg isn't it? I mean, just how does one decide if one is financially "ready"?
I don't believe the Phd student should lie about the ring, but I really think you're really jaded about the LOVE thingy.
I got married at a time when I wasn't making a lot a money. I proposed, and my wife ＣＨＯＳＥ to marry me. Were we financially ready? Hmm... well, if I'd waited 8 years till today, we would not have had to be concerned about our finances like the way we were. And would definitely not have had my 2 beautiful children
I don't know, BM, may be you just haven't found "the one"... I'm not going to give you any labels, and I don't think you should change your way of thinking to suit anyone else, but I do think that you should be less critical about the path others have chosen to take... I have friends who have between 3 to 5 children each, who don't make shit loads of money, but whose homes are filled with love... so much love that you can't imagine... or can you?
Ultimately, i dont think $ is everything. And, it definitely cant get you happiness. Happiness is from deep within your heart.
I am a woman and i know. I will say "I DO" to the $50 diamond ring and married that PHD fella.
When 2 person are in love in Europe/Asia and it is time for the guy to go overseas (typically USA) for phd studies near 30 yr old, one of two *typical* things can happen:
(1) they get married (maybe even proposing with a cheap ring so as to save all the money), go overseas and "suffer" for 4 years together. (Actually "suffer" doesnt mean begging on the street. It just means no extra money after food/rent and cheap 10th-hand car and baby diapers. That's where saving on the ring comes in). The guy studies, the gal "take a break" for about half a year, then have 1-2 kids during the remaining 3 years (remember the age factor stated above). After graduation, they return back to their home country, with the husband becoming a professor at the local uni or reserach industry, 2 kids in tow, and a very happy wife who truly understand the meaning of being 小女人 and enjoys it.
(2) the girl start pondering whether she is "marrying down"? why she need to suffer with him for 4 years? won't it be cleverer to make him suffer by himself and marry him only 4 years later? Start evaluating the entire relationship and finding fault everywhere (to make herself feel less guilty?) and the two split up. The guy went overseas solo and found another gal there either during his studies (at the singapore student society at his uni?) or after becoming a professor. The gal stay back, go through one relationship after another, get emotionally unstable as she goes near the 30 yr old mark, and get agitated everytime she read about other phd students' marital affairs.
Situation (1) is something that has been occuring for decades all over Europe and Asia (taiwan especially in the 1970s and 80s, and now mainland china). It is starting to occur in Singapore too, as the govt pushes for R&D and sending people to do phd in USA. Contrary to the guy-is-selfish, gal-is-"forced"-to-give-in idea that bm is claiming, actually BOTH guy and gal agree to the marriage (not all women are materialistic and jiao1 shen1 guan4 yang3. So what bm calls "suffering", they may not regard it as such).
Situation (2) is something that we seldom hear of, because gals usually dont talk about such things openly (especially when they feel guilty subconciously). That's why I enjoy reading BM's blog. Let's see what happen to Mr/Dr. Lim eventually, and what happen to BM, lovelife-wise 5 years from now, if bm is still blogging then :)
Keep writing! I love to know how many more relationship you are going to go through!
Maybe that's why you are still unmarried after going through more than 10 relationships in 10 years, while others your age are already happily married with kids? Is that why everytime you read about such poor-phds-propose-to-gf news, it touch your raw nerves and you have to blog out your "frustration"? emotionally unbalanced (xin1 li3 bu4 ping2 heng2)? Ouch!
Some comment above mentioned 小女人, and I think you said you would like to be one before. I read your 何谓小女人 post on the right sidebar under 心的方言. You were right in that post: "小女人的定义...是（一）讲心讲思维，（二）为他人的付出，与（三）这两者之间的摸索与结论"。
Which is why Mr.光 is right to say you "不是小女人。差得远了"。 Maybe he was too polite to point out to you that you are the opposite of your own definition. You（一）讲money，（二）不为他人付出. The last sentence in that post is very enlightening: "I accept my lonely destiny".
In a perfect world, the husband's or wife's ability to contribute to family finances shouldn't really matter. But this isn't a perfect world.
man, if this happens to be my bf, i'll fuck him upside down before i dump him!
BM.. in one of the post you mention earlier, you were asking if LOVE is rational? (am i correct?)
your fren's housemate answered your question. (but then again, it may not be what you think. everybody is entitled to their opinions. you have yours we have ours. We just keep an open mind and live ours)
Cheers! you will find your love oneday
This is HaHa. I see that my comment has been blogged about by you! So honoured! HaHa! Since you mention me, I feel obliged to let you know that your generalisation of typical phds is wrong.
> "But fuck la...
PhD or not...
For once... can spare a thought for other people or not?
She's somebody you supposedly love leh!!"
which is why the guy should marry the gal and go overseas together!
Typically in Singapore's context, guy (eg. age 23) meet gal (21 - no NS, so 2 years younger) during uni days. graduate (guy=25, gal=23) and work for a few years (eg. 3 yrs) after graduation. So let's do the math. The guy is now 28, gal is 26. Gal has devoted 5 years of her prime life (21 to 26) to this guy. Now this guy want to go overseas for 4 years. When he comes back, guy=32, gal=30.
It is VERY RESPONSIBLE for the guy to "spare a thought" for the girl he love and propose to the gal with a US$50 ring (save the money for the next 4 years) and ask this gal to go overseas with him and have kids with him so that when they come back, it is guy=32, gal=30, boy=3, girl=1 ideally. (it is possible to have kids overseas on a phd stipend and digging into savings. BM is exaggerating about the lack of money).
It is VERY CLEVER AND CORRECT for the gal to go with this guy too. She loves him to begin with, plus the age math mentioned above. Moreover, clever gals can see that the ring issue is not an issue at all, and that living overseas is not really a suffering contrary to bm's assertion.
It is VERY IRRESPONSIBLE and SELFISH for the guy to NOT spare a thought for the gal he supposedly love and to say something to this effect: yeah, I know you have devoted your prime love life from age 22 to 26 to me. Big deal! You jolly well wait for me another 4 years! From 26 to 30, making it 8 years altogether. When I come back at 32, i will marry you and have kids then, so it becomes: guy=33, gal=31, boy/gal=newbirth (first kid at 31 for the gal. 2nd kid at what age?). That's assuming we work out long distance for 4 years. if not, then too bad lor. you go find another man when u are 30 year old, ok?
It is VERY FOOLISH AND INCORRECT for the gal to say: I love him and has devoted 4 years of my life to him. But that was when love is without money issue. Now there is money to talk about. Too much suffering overseas. Plus, his US$50 ring is an insult to me, blah blah blah. I would rather either wait for him for 4 years in Singapore. 4 year long distance relationship, sure will work out. Anyway, if cannot work out, i can always find another man. Afterall, I think I am not ugly and what's wrong with changing boyfriends year after year?
Anyway, to each his own lor. what is RESPONSIBLE and what is IRRESPONSIBLE, what is SELFLESS and what is SELFISH, what is CLEVER and what is FOOLISH, these type of things, require experience in life. Some people are slow in realising such things. So you just have to go through a few more relationship in order to understand lor. Some people need some hard knocks in life in order to wake up. Eg. your relationship with that phd guy, you were with him only 4 mths before he left for overseas. 4 months!!! And yet you already committed to waiting for him, and at one point want to marry him. So what I said about 4 years of courtship above doesnt even apply to you (I was merely trying to point out to you OTHER phds people's typical situation since you are generalising about everyone). Can you not see that your 4 mths relationship with him is doomed right from the start, with or without the ring issue?
If from a purely materialistic, marrying a poor PhD student may not be a bad idea after all. Current value of may be low, but that also means fewer competitors vying to woo the same person. But then the poor PhD student also got high future cash inflows right? cos' he'll prolly be earning a considerable income after that. Discounting his future cash inflows back, his Net Present Value actually is higher than what it seems. If i was the girl, i sacrifice current consumption for future cash inflows haha.
eventually r'ship is between 2 persons.
whether a r'ship is worth holding on does not hinge on a ring, or the lack of it, alone. rather, it is what each person has put into the r'ship that matters.
if a man can't afford ring, but gives the girl more than what a ring can give, for e.g. emotional security, that the girl values more, why not?
yy said..."if a man can't afford ring, but gives the girl more than what a ring can give, for e.g. emotional security, that the girl values more, why not?"
Good for you. So probably, you will need to suffer less in the relationship area compared to bm. Some people learn faster, some people learn slower.
err...why cant phd propose wt a simple ring...why use a fakie 1 carat??
if 'material' really doesnt matter...then i'm sure a simple plain ring will do...after all it is the thought that counts.
ps: me here will be happy with a self made cheapo ring (made from art and craft store) as long as the proposal was done lomanticly...ahhh ;)
pss: can everyone start using han yu pin yin and translation while blogging for the benefit of chinese illiterate like moi here...pls pls
bm blogs as if the gals have no wish to get married and it is the phd guys that are forcing the gals to do so for selfish reasons.
WRONG! Many times, it is the gal who wants the guy to marry her and go overseas together. Not all women think like bm. Many gals actually think that it is selfish if their bf of 5 years (see my math in earlier comment) do not propose to them before going overseas, but instead leave them behind in singapore for another 4 years, thus making them wait for the guys for 9 years in total! Many such gals actually prefer their bf to do the responsibile and gentlemanly and correct thing of proposing to them. Unlike bm, they, being non-materialistic, also relish the idea of taking a break from the stressful working life for 1 year and then have 2 kids in the next 3 years just before they turn 30. (it is possible to have kids as phd students. Any gathering at universities overseas with singaporean phds students will see kids around! you are exagerrating the money problem).
Selfish is when a guy dump his 5 years gf and make her wait another 4 years. That's very very selfish.
Foolish is when a gal prefer to wait another 4 years for a guy, after already waiting 5 years!
Foolish is when she further thinks that her wait will be worthwhile because a 4-yr long distance relationship will work out.
Foolish is when she further prefer to have kids after 30 yr old.
The anonymous person above
> pss: can everyone start using han yu pin yin and translation while blogging for the benefit of chinese illiterate like moi here...pls pls
Cannot.
"(我希望)不会说华语的新加坡华人不要再觉得原来不会说华语是那么光荣骄傲的一件事，希望他们可以终于了解到什么叫做羞耻。" --- 吴庆康－生日希望
联合早报 24th Aug 05
For your benefit:
"(I wish that) those Chinese Singaporeans who cannot speak Chinese, will no longer feel that being unable to speak Chinese is such an honourable and proud thing. I wish they can finally understand what the word SHAME means" --- Goh King Kang (Zaobao journalist, Local celebrity and writer) -- Birthday Wish, as published in Zaobao on 24th Auguest 05
The anon 3 post up
>> ps: me here will be happy with a self made cheapo ring (made from art and craft store) as long as the proposal was done lomanticly...ahhh ;)
Good for you! You and yy are clearly going to have an easier time in relationship compared to bm
but but...im not chinese. u mean only chinese and singaporean can read this blog.
din know...shall not ask again then
:(
oh ya...
the same non-chinese non-singaporean adds...
psss: will be extremely furious if future hubby propose with a fake 1 carat ring and claiming it was real...but will accept it happily if he told me it was a fake in the beginning :)
Actually, I think it can be very romantic and sincere for a guy to propose with a AU$50 1-carat lab-made diamond. And the conversation goes like this:
Twit's housemate: (holding her hand and looking sincerely into her eyes) "H**y, I am not rich lah. So I cannot afford a AU$5000 1-carat diamond. But hey, this is also 1-carat leh, except that it is lab-made. I search all over ebay to find it. Next time, our 10th aniversary, I buy a real natural-made 1-carat one for you, ok?"
H**y: "hahaha. You are soooo cute! I can imagine how you go all over the internet to search for a ring with a hugh carat and yet cheap enough! (laugh her head off). Didnt even know there are such lab-made diamonds! Please lah, you think I so materialistic meh? It's enough that you thought about such things. A ring is just a ring lah. 10th anniversary, if we are still together, I dont want any diamond ring from you. We go on a disney cruise together with our kids at that time, ok?"
Twit's housemate: "H**y, thanks! You know, not all women will stand by a poor phd student with no income, much less marry him. I love you. You are one in a million. If there is a next life, I will want to choose you again"
H**y: "Chey, since when you become so rou4 ma2? It's not as if you are so poor until we live on the street lah. Just that you have no extra cash. No need to say such things about me (blushing)"
Twit's housemate: "but I am serious. Some girls are not like that. There is this bm's blog..."
Such a conversation cannot happen meh? I think it is very ok and very romantic and perfectly relistic. Not all people are like bm. Thank goodness.
wah...vely lomantic...i like ;)
phd, be honest abt the fake ring hor...don lie! u r oni asking for trouble if u lie...
Uh, aaa, your "conversation" almost made me lose my apetite for lunch. TOO mushy liao!!
Anyway, I think if both parties go into the marriage willingly, then there is not much issue here. But the crux of it is the guy's sincerity.
From this incident, there seems to be a flippant attitude on the guys part. "It's just a ring. She wouldn't know. It's no diff."
Say, if you were the gf and you knew he said these, would you be convinced enough to give up everything, go over and suffer with him? I can see where all the Mr Loser, Haha are coming from. Unfortunately, they seem to be sticking their necks out to defend someone who holds a totally different attitude to the marriage compared to themselves.
I think it's ok to admit that you're poor, can't afford much at that point in time, but due to various reasons that you have to get married (eg. PHD) and let the girl decide whether she wants to suffer with you. You should also have given sufficient thought on whether both of you can survive together. That's being honest with yourself and the girl.
But it's not ok to start making excuses for yourself, that you have to do your PHD and it's not practical to split, therefore she SHOULD marry you. That next time you will be able to provide for her, so it's ok for her to suffer now. That there's no need for her to know it's a fake ring. That you don't lay down the cards on the table and apologise for your inability to support her, but rather blame the girl for being materialistic if she's unhappy with the lack of subsistence. Hey, I think if I were the girl, and you're not going to provide for me, can't I even voice a complain without being said that I'm materialistic? (I'm male btw). There seems to be a lot of defensive action here, trying to argue that the girl SHOULD marry, even when the guy is poor.
Seriously, should you fault a girl if/when you can't reassure her that you have planned a living for both of you? And scold her materialistic? Or is it the guy's failure in this case?
Probably, Haha and Mr Loser don't fall into this category. Their wives chose to marry them knowing they were poor. They didn't make excuses to their wives for being poor and unable to support them. They probably felt bad that they couldn't afford more, but were truly sincere and hoped their wives wouldn't mind.
I think bottomline is, you MUST have worked out your finance before proposing. That's just being responsible in love, not catering to materialism!!!!
And to the poor anonymous who asked for hanyu pinyin and kena flamed for not being able to read mandarin, feel sorry for you. Haha. You're not even Chinese and kena flamed.
just dun lie la
and if it were me i would marry my poor phd bf. Yes coz i love him enough to overlook the AS50 lab made diamond ring. But the lying part is kinda wrong, i would have been pissed off, coz i personally detest lying in a relationship.
mib, this idea of "suffer" and "poor" is what BM feels, not an objective fact. You should not use those words as if the gals will definitely be suffering with some financially poor student. "suffer" or not, "poor" or not depend on people.
"suffer" - Many women do not find it a "suffering" to be a housewife and have kids while husband is studying overseas. They want to have kids anyway (unlike bm). Therfore it is a matter of choosing between (a) having kids while being a housewife in usa, versus (b) having kids and working in singapore. And they prefer or dont mind the former compared to the latter. Get it? Many mothers in Singapore wish they can stay at home and be full-time mom if they can afford it too. So these women are simply happy to have this opportunity to do what they cannot do in Singapore. Many parents-in-laws will fly in to help and stay for half a year too. That's why they went overseas with their husband HAPPILY! BM is twisting everything to sound as if the women has been forced or conned into going overseas by their selfish bf. not true!
"poor" - Many women also would not label the financial situation as being "poor". There are women in Singapore who do not spend lots of money on their hair, on pedicure, on manicure etc. Heck, they dont even patronise pubs or smoke or drink, all of which cost money. They are what we guys call "homely girls". I am sure as a guy, you know the existence of this type of girls (who are not hiao, but also equally pretty in a non-havoc way). To such women, life overseas with their hubby is NOT poor at all! There are food to eat, oppportunity to go restaurants occasionally too. Car is cheap and one can drive around to visit mountains and national parks on weekends. This type of life is not poor or suffering at all by these girls' standard! Of course there arent extra money for pedicure/manicure and pubbing daily, but as said earlier, they are not into such things. Most importantly, they wanted to have kids, and when the kid comes, there is no mood or time for any financially-draining activities anyway, even if you have lots of money. Taking care of babies are full time job, even with parent-in-laws help. Medical care and health care is free for american citizens who are poor, and any baby born in usa is an american citizen. So this means that babies immunisation and sickness or hospitalisation is nothing you need to worry. Oh wait, forget to say that even pregnancy and prenatal care is free for poor non-citizens. So the woman can give birth and get prenatal vitamins etc all for free! Wait, still got more! Milk and cheese and peanut butter and egg and juices are also free even for non-citizens children under 5 year old. So the entire family get to drink gallons of fresh cow's milk and eat cheese for free for 5 years for every child you have. So you tell me lor, got enough food (and cheese and milk), got adequate health care, can go restaurant occasionally, got car, got enough money to even have a few babies, can anyone call this kind of life poor? Ans: can. If a person's idea of poor is: cannot live without maid, without pedicure/manicure, without pubbing and clubbing, without smoking and drinking regularly. Sure, by that type of standard, no wonder BM finds it "poor" and "suffering"! And of course she has the time to do such activities, she does not want to have kids, remember? that make a HUGH difference. If you read carefully, what I write about no-suffering and no-poor is all about kids. Anywa, I think I will not write more. Prefer to read quietly.
"..It takes two hands to clap, if both are willing and happy nobody can stop them, as much as you think it is wrong. Anyway using a ring to bind your gf to you for another x more years is pure selfishness, sounds more like buying an insurance for your love to her."
Blindcat: You seem rather contradicting in the above. First you said if both are willing, it is OK. Then in the next breath you use words like "selfish". What the Faarks are you talking about! Which party in this transaction, and also in the world at large is NOT 'selfish'? I believe only Mother Theresa is unselfish (unless qualified psychologists disagree, of course).
Anyway it seems, with all the pervasive and loud talk of "love', all is nothing unless the action shows and confirms it. By the way, the saying that, "Poke any saint deep enough and you'll find self-interest" or something to that effect is so real. Isn't this the most practical philosophy to live by in this modern ego-oriented world in which 'morality' and 'love' have no more meaning in the traditional sense? When Mother Theresa died, in spite of what she has sacrificed for love of humanity, we saw in the media only a few miserable stalks of flowers in honour of her in comparison with Princess Diana, who died about that same time, who had road and roads and roads paved with avalances of flowers and people. Who can tell which of the two examples contain more love?
LOVE IS SIMPLY A GIFT OF THE DIVINE!
Mr Haha, you made so many assumptions. For someone who says A$50 is expensive, I seriously doubt the scenario you painted.
Anyway, you're right about the suffering, it's usually perceived. But like I said, the guy needs to have done some planning, and lay the cards on the table.
You seem to be painting a fairytale image. I lived overseas before, and I know how difficult and expensive it is to have a decent living on my own. Which is why I have my doubts on your wholesome happy family living comfortably, everyday got 3 meals and still got car to drive scenario. Maybe in your case, yah.... BUT are you trying to speak for all PHD students, that all PHD students can afford such a basic lifestyle for themselves, wife and baby???
"Many women want to stay home and be full time mum if they can afford it"... Are you sure...??? Women reading this, can validate? What is this, a woman's instinct not to work and stay home? Anyway, the fact is if A$50 is expensive, you think the girl can afford it? Does the guy then EXPECT the girl to work?
It's ok if the girl is willing, by all means it's a mutual agreement between both parties. But it is very wrong if the guy EXPECTS this to be the case and BLAMES the girl for being unwilling to go through thick and thin with him when she doesn't happen to fit in HIS plan.
Is it me or does anyone get the difference?
1) Guy has his own plan (eg PHD), girl does not fit plan, guy blames her. Not acceptable.
2) Guy has plan, consults gf, lays the cards out, girl does/doesn't agree. Nobody's to judge.
Seriously, do PHD guys consider not doing their PHD, starting work first so as to save up and get married, and then do their PHD later in life? Not possible? How about going through life without ever doing their precious PHD for the girl they L.O.V.E?? Seems that most often, the PHD guy wants things his way, the girl is the one making sacrifices. If she's willing, she's a good girl. If she's not willing, she's materialistic, not willing to wait, not willing to go through think and thin, not a good girl. Why doesn't anybody ask why the guy isn't a selfish bastard for insisting on doing his PHD when there are other options available? Want PHD, want wife, want children, everything also want their way! GF can either choose to "stick it out" with them or be labelled materialistic as what is being said by some childish EGOISTIC males I see here. Geez.
My take:
The PhD guy loves the girl - he proposes. With whatever he can muster and gather from watver puny savings he has. That is sincere. But lying is not.
The girl KNOWS about the AUS$50 ring. She loves him all the same. She marries him.
End of story. Why? It's their lives to begin with. If one is keen and the other is willing, who are we to judge what their lives are going to be? Everyone chooses their own destinies. We are only spectators.
BTW, what's with the low blows? KNN. Can write regarding the issue and not about the writer or not?
And on top of the low blows, some of you like to spend some time saying how well you treated your wives unlike what BM said. GET IT CLEAR, she ain't talking about you. Is that so difficult to understand...?
mib, I know you are not debating with me, but i can't resist adding my 2 cents worth:
> I lived overseas before, and I know how difficult and expensive it is to have a decent living on my own.
You lived in States? I think the comment was referring to usa where a really old car can literally cost only US$500.
> Which is why I have my doubts on your wholesome happy family living comfortably, everyday got 3 meals and still got car to drive scenario. Maybe in your case, yah.... BUT are you trying to speak for all PHD students, that all PHD students can afford such a basic lifestyle for themselves, wife and baby???
Sometimes, singaporeans are a bit outdated and unadventurous on such things. Every year, literally thousands of poor mainland Chinese graduate student are affording such a lifestyle for "themselves, wife and baby" in the states at every big and small university you can think of. They started out with even less savings than Singaporeans considering the exchange rates. This type of affordability issue, there is nothing to debate about. If you have been to any US uni in recent years, then you will know US's welfare system that someone has pointed out and the Chinese student phenomena. If not, then you just have not been exposed to such things lor.
> "Many women want to stay home and be full time mum if they can afford it"... Are you sure...???
I think the comment was referring to many singaporean women who have worked for a few years, and having had enough stress, dont mind being full-time mother for a few years if they can afford to.
> Seriously, do PHD guys consider not doing their PHD, starting work first so as to save up and get married, and then do their PHD later in life?
Maybe you prefer to be a student at 40 yr old and have a midlife career change, starting a completely new career as a freshie assistant professor at 45 yr old. That's your choice. But I think other guys *and* their gf (the "and" is important - you are making the whole thing appear as if it is the guy making his own decision) probably prefer to do it in their late 20s *after* already working a few years, so that the guy can start his academic career in his early 30s?
>Not possible? How about going through life without ever doing their precious PHD for the girl they L.O.V.E??
Please lah. It is *both* guy and gal who want/support the guy to do his phd. In fact, more often than not, the girl went into the relationship willingly, already knowing that the so-called precious phd is going to happen. It is not as if a guy hide his career ambition from the girl until last minute! I am not a phd person. But this is commonsense, isn't it? Geez, just because you are bm's supporter does not mean you have to keep insisting that it is a one-sided decision. It's part of the family decision, taking into account children who are yet to come, children who are already here and so on.
> Seems that most often, the PHD guy wants things his way, the girl is the one making sacrifices.
Well, you already said it correctly: "seems". The truth probably is that it is a family sacrifice for "their way". You dont seem to get it.
> Why doesn't anybody ask why the guy isn't a selfish bastard for insisting on doing his PHD when there are other options available? Want PHD, want wife, want children, everything also want their way! GF can either choose to "stick it out" with them or be labelled materialistic as what is being said by some childish EGOISTIC males I see here. Geez.
Seems like you really need to paint a very distorted picture in order to support bm hor. I dont see it like that: I think most guys, right at the beginning of the relationship already make clear that they want to go for further studies. The girls went into the relationship knowing full well that one day the guy will be leaving for his studies. (that's in bm's case too, remember?). And the girls accepted this fact and eventually the family moved overseas together as they *both* have planned/agreed. Now, where is the selfishness and egoism that you are talking about? However, some girls, such as bm, at the very last minute, started to back out of what they know they were in for, right at the beginning. Their backing out, at the critical moment show their true colour (i.e. that they can talk big and agree to everything when the move/"poverty" is far into the future, and start backing out when the move/"poverty" is impeding). Their last minute backout are based on materialistic considerations and therefore they are of course being materialistic.
Uhm, aaa, I think you're the one that doesn't get it. There isn't any issue with guys and gals that agree whole-heartedly on an agreed course of action, eg. for the guy to pursue his PHD and the girl to follow.
The issue is with guys that expect the girls to follow. That's the scenario.
You keep saying the girl entered the relationship knowing the eventuality. Why not the guy entered the relationship knowing that eventually, the girl doesn't want to go? Then what happens for such a scenario? Both should breakup and find someone who wants to suit them?
BTW, PHD isn't only done in the US. (For this case, it's Australia). Anyway, like I said, if one has worked out the finances, and it's feasible like you suggested, then by all means, the guy has done his job of ensuring that it's not a irresponsible decision. I have no issues with that.
Probably some of the questions I'd ask would be:
1) If the guy entered the relationship knowing the girl doesn't want to uproot, should he eventually give up his PHD? What happened to LOVE then?
2) What if the guy can't support the marriage but still wants to get married?
Don't bring BM into the picture here. That's becoming personal. And you have no idea the details that went through between her and her ex-bf.
> PHD isn't only done in the US. (For this case, it's Australia)
bm's ex-bf went to new york to do his phd. The guy you were debating with claimed that bm is exaggerrating about "poor" (and therfore she is materialistic). He brought up US's welfare system and its free medical care for children, claiming that not only can "poor" phd student support themselves, but also wife and children. You dismissed him, saying that you doubt his calculation because you "lived overseas before, and I know how difficult and expensive it is to have a decent living on my own, which is why I doubt....". But, now you are telling me that your doubt arose your your phd study in AUSTRALIA??? Why are you using your AUSTRALIA experience to doubt what your debator talk about UNITED STATES's situation? You are a really funny one.
> Don't bring BM into the picture here. That's becoming personal.
That's again very funny of you! Other people are commenting/debating about BM's claim of "poor" and "suffer", based on money situation of a UNITED STATES phd student because that's where BM's ex-bf is, But, you want to debate about something else concerning "poor" and "suffer" in Australia where BM's ex-bf is NOT at?!? and tell others not to bring BM into the picture?!? If you dont want to bring BM into the picture, then why are u arguing in this blog? Isn't this blog about her, and all the comments about her and her relationship and her perceived materialism? What are u trying to argue about, and why are u arguing in this blog, if it is not about bm?
No wonder the guy that debated with you initially doesnt want to reply! I am thinkinig that I probably shouldnt reply to!
mib said: "Probably some of the questions I'd ask would be:....
2) What if the guy can't support the marriage but still wants to get married?"
Your questions are too general, and irrelevant to bm's case. I am not interested in debating general questions that have nothing to do with bm, with you on this blog. How I ended up talking to you is like this:
- someone (haha) claim that bm is distorting when she say going usa with bf is "suffering", "poor". He provide some concrete examples of free food, free medical care etc in the usa(probably his own experience, I guess) to support his idea.
- you object to his idea, claiming that your own overseas experience show that it is difficult to support even one person, let alone wife and baby.
- i stupidly jumped in to add a few more things about money situation in usa (car is cheap for eg).
- you now tell me your initial objection is based on your experince in australia, not usa.
I now feel like a fool to have jump in to your debate with another person since it is obvious that you are being illogical. And now, you want to ask a general question that does NOT apply to bm's case at all and you want me to not bring bm into the picture! I am not interested in general debates with you. This was, and is about bm's blog and about our comment about her.
Ay, you learning drums ah? cool. Go d/l Tom Sawyer by Rush, one of the most talented progressive bands in the 80s. Check out the funky shift between 4/4 time and 7/8 time.
Post a Comment